EP121 Transcript Voting Information Day with Vot-ER
Mel Wilson:
Hi, my name is Mel Wilson. I'm a senior policy advisor for NASW National's Office. I want to welcome you to this podcast with Vote ER and NASW on mobilizing for the extremely important 2024 presidential and down ballot elections. It goes without saying that the upcoming election is one of the most important elections in terms of preserving America's democracy since the Civil War. Hopefully, this podcast will be able to share some important information about what is at stake for social workers, and more importantly, what is at stake for the individuals and families that you serve. Our panelists for this podcast are two social workers who are major players in getting the healthcare and related social services providers fully engaged in the 2024 election. So without any ado, let me introduce Vanessa Navarro and Christina Cazanave. I do that. Christina, could you begin?
Christina Cazanave:
Sure. Hi everyone. My name is Christina Cazanave. I am a member of NASW Florida and one of the luckiest people in the world to get to partner with Vote ER on a regular basis. I am a professor of undergraduate social Works, specializing in macro and policy at St. Leo University, a small private university about 30 minutes north of Tampa, Florida, and we have been partnering with Vote ER for a couple of years now in utilizing the tools to help my students, faculty and staff on campus get registered to vote and then locally in our community as well. I'm also proud to be the legislative committee chair for the NASW Florida chapter in which we have been able to incorporate Vote ER within our chapter and throughout our members. So I'll turn it over to Vanessa so she can go ahead and introduce herself.
Vanessa Navarro:
Yes. My name is Vanessa Navarro. I am currently an intern working at Vote ER. I learned of Vote ER through Christina. She was my professor when I was getting my bachelor's in social work at St. Leo. Since then, I did go on to get my master's at Boston University where I was macro focused and I did my whole year placement at Vote ER as well. So I'm pretty familiar with Vote ER and how it works and also where social work and civic engagement connect and intertwine and why one can't really exist without the other.
Mel Wilson:
Thank you both. Vanessa, I'll start with you on this first question. Could you just tell us the history of Vote ER and part two on that is I know Vote ER works with a lot of partners including NASW, what that process is in the partnership and the relationship with partners and Vot-ER?
Vanessa Navarro:
Yeah, of course. So Vote ER was started in Boston, Massachusetts at Mass Gen by Dr. Alistair Martin, who is an emergency room physician. He, one evening he, a woman came in with her two children and they were seeking shelter and it was really cold outside and the woman was like, I can't spend another day outside with my children. I really need some help. So Dr. Martin actually called the onsite social worker, which kind of just proves that we are such important resources in hospitals and healthcare institutions, but he called the onsite social worker and he was like, what can we do to help these people? And she was like, well, Massachusetts is a right to shelter state, which means that if they are a resident of Massachusetts have children, the government has to provide them shelter, so they just have to show proof of residency. So the woman had just moved to the state and she didn't have anything to prove that she was a resident of Massachusetts.
So when Dr. Martin posed that question to the social worker or the social worker said, well, we can register her to vote to establish residency. And he took that back to the patient and they said that they have never been asked that question before. They've never been asked to register to vote. And that was kind of a light bulb moment for him and as a doctor, he sees a lot of non-medical issues like the social determinants of health, so people coming in with problems not being able to afford food, et cetera. So he thought, why not be able to make registering to vote more accessible? So he created this well with the team and he created these QR code badges that healthcare workers and individuals can wear around their necks, and they'll just need that. They'll have a patient scan that, and the QR code takes them to the Vote ER website, which is completely nonpartisan.
It just asks you if you're inquiring about registering to vote if you need a mail-in ballot, any questions about voting. There's a live chat with Vote Writers, which is also a nonpartisan organization that provides information about voting and also to check your voter registration. So it's a really helpful tool amongst a lot of other ones that the ER has to make it easy to have these conversations with the populations that healthcare providers encounter, which is everybody. So yeah, it's really cool. And when in terms of partnership, I'm actually going to pass that to Christina who is a partner with Vote er, so they can go into a little bit more detail about that process.
Christina Cazanave:
Like I stated in my opening, I became a partner of Vote ER many years ago. The reason for that is in my state, Florida, in recent legislative sessions, Florida lawmakers have passed several bills that have made it more difficult for third party organizations to conduct voter registration using traditional methods like paper registration. So in response, ER became the perfect solution, empowering individuals to take control of their own voter registration process, which aligns perfectly with the core principles of social work empowerment and self-actualization. So when I partnered with Vote er, it was very simple. I attended something that they call a basic training in which they go over that story that Vanessa just shared with all of you and the tools of scanning the QR code and you being able to do that right then and there in the training, being able to see how easy that process is, and then being able to order your badge for yourself if you're going to do this as an individual or for your organization and the tools that you needed.
After I attended that, I partnered with Vote ER because I really liked that cutting edge technology, which works great with the demographic of students I work with. And it also was very easy and useful for my older demographic, my faculty, staff members in other community organizations. Beyond that, we were able to assist people in finding their voting location, their voter registration updates, requesting mail-in ballots, and then getting that state election information, which was perfect because on a university, we don't have just students from Florida, we have students from all 50 states, so I don't have to be an expert in all 50 states laws. They just scan that QR code, they do the work, and if they're not able to do it because their state doesn't allow online voter registration, it stops them. But the thing that's key is I got to ask them and I got the thought thinking in their head so that they can then go to the next step and do what they need to. So in addition to our campus efforts, my group of students that we call the Y Vote Campaign six dedicated
Mel Wilson:
Campaign is that it's
Christina Cazanave:
Called the Y Vote Campaign.
Mel Wilson:
The Y Vote. Okay.
Christina Cazanave:
Yeah, it's a group of six dedicated students. Vanessa was an alumni from Y Vote as well. So in addition to our campus efforts, we were able to also expand this to two of our local health clinics right in our local area. And then being a member of NASW, I approached my chapter executive director and I said, Hey, is it possible for you to partner with Vote ER? And we start rolling this out with Members Vote ER has a southeast director who oversees all partnerships in the area. We're able to sit down with Reed, that's his name. He's fabulous, and we're able to sit down and talk about how we can create a partnership with NASW Florida, and from there, it's just branched into a wonderful partnership locally and then throughout the state of Florida.
Mel Wilson:
Great. One of the things you guys both brought up is that VDR originated with basically doctors and very defined medical community. So we're being clear that that extends and expands, and it's an inclusive of social workers and non treating physicians or nurses, which is an important thing because from what Christina was explaining, that the involvement of NASW chapters and other social work organizations that certainly are welcome to participate in this. The next question, and you guys can both answer this is having to do, we're trying to target this podcast to coincide with a national voter education day, which is the October 7th, if I'm correct. So either one of you or both of you, could you just give a little background what that is? It's a week. I said a day. It is actually the week dealing with voter education. What is it and how do we fit into all that process?
Vanessa Navarro:
Yeah, so national, what is it called? It's National Voter Education Week. So it is a nonpartisan campaign happening on October 7th until the 11th, and it helps voters find their polling place, understand their ballot, make a voting plan, and encourage others to get involved. It's really just trying to educate eligible voters on how to prep to be able to cast their ballot and cast it confidently. And this year, vote ERs is encouraging health professionals to be ambassadors and our professional ambassadors and our partner organizations to make sure that their staff members, patients, and communities have the resources that they need to get out the vote. We're really hoping to use this week to encourage folks to make their own plans when they vote, how will they get there, if it's going to be in person, if they're early voting, when will they do it, et cetera. Because really, when you make a plan, you're more likely to be able to go through with that plan. So Voter Education Week is really just a time to bring that to light, and as social workers have those, it's an easy way to have those conversations where it might not be easy to slip in the past. So yeah, if Christina,
Christina Cazanave:
Yeah, what I'll expand on that is it's a week long initiative, and you can, as a social worker, if you're in a large organization in a private practice, you can find different ways to incorporate this without a heavy lift, right? Because I think that's the most biggest barrier for social workers is how do I incorporate this that it doesn't take away from the day-to-Day work that I'm doing? How do I ask this question during a time that's really super sensitive in the topic that I'm covering with my client? But it's really simple. If you break up this week into five themes, the first one is I'm just asking them, are you registered to vote the next day? Do you have a voter plan the next day? Where is your polling location? It takes this big momentum into smaller chunks, and there's easy ways for social workers to do that.
One of the biggest things that vote er and I always tell other social workers is Do you have a question in your intake form? Right? We all have an intake form to try to get to understand our clients. So do you have that question in your intake form? Are you registered to vote? It's a simple question that if you don't feel a hundred percent comfortable asking, it's right there on the phone. And if they say yes, then you can have a follow up question says, do you need to update your registration? Because that's another wonderful thing about this week. It reminds us to update if you ever changed your name, if you've changed your address, or if you just want to make sure you're still on the rolls because states can take you off. So it's a good way to just ask, are you registered?
Do you need to update your registration? And then I also incorporate having in a timeframe that is comfortable, meaning maybe at a discharge when you're starting to do that, follow-up, starting to do the follow-up plans, and when you're going to reach out to them in a couple of weeks or a couple months asking, Hey, do you know that the election's coming up in November? Do you have a voting plan? And if they say, I have no idea what that is, five simple questions. Do you have your polling? Do you know where your polling location is? What time of the day are you going to go?
Do you know who's going to help you with transportation? Or do you need transportation? What about childcare? Are you going to need that as well? And what additional information do you need to know about the candidates? Those five simple questions can be part of a voting plan that we could do a discharge or if we feel comfortable enough during our sessions, just mention that because as Vanessa said, voting is a predictor of health determinants. What we see is that those that vote have stronger health determinants because politicians are putting more resources back into those communities. They see that they're more engaged. So this week is a great opportunity to incorporate some simple questions into your day-to-day conversation to make sure that your clients and community are on a pathway to better health.
Mel Wilson:
Great. Actually, I want to ask a question out of sequence because of what you just said about working with clients in terms of voter registration and voter involvement, are there any, I used the word prohibitions or any kind of ethical issues around approach, or maybe a better phrase, how do you approach without being intrusive or really blurring boundaries? And both of you guys can answer the question.
Vanessa Navarro:
Yeah, so like Christina said, finding those natural ways to do it during a biopsychosocial or discharge or just a place where it'll naturally fit in. I think the most important thing is, is that social workers and health providers are going to know the best place to do these things and to really rely on their knowledge of when is their best practice to be able to input those questions at vote. We are do have conversation starters, so if the social worker or health provider needs an idea of where to start, those are really good to have just because it kind of gives you an idea of where you can ask these sort of questions. But again, each place is going to have different things that are emergent or emergency. So obviously you want to be cognizant of those and not ask the questions, particularly at that time. So definitely take into account those things. But again, yeah, that's why the badges that we have is so great and the custom materials and all the resources that Vote ER provides because it's really up to you to be able to include it where it'll be most beneficial to your clients and which will have the most impact and be able to get them to where they need to be.
Mel Wilson:
Christina, did you want to add anything?
Christina Cazanave:
Yeah, what I'll add to that is it is legal to ask somebody if they're registered to vote. The National Voter Registration Act of 1993 allows us to be able to do that. But if we're looking at the ethical components of it, we have to be very cautious in how we propose it and how we ask. We always have to stay nonpartisan, meaning that we're not suggesting what party they should be a member of, what candidate they should vote for. We're strictly asking them, are you registered to vote? And then giving them a reason for it. Sometimes we hear, well, my vote doesn't matter anyways, and giving them a reason why, because it does matter, because every vote is important to the process, particularly at the local level. But even saying something like that, there's no skin in the game. I am not telling someone You should vote for this person because you have to, and they're dependent on your vote.
You need to stay nonpartisan, but it is legal for you to do that. Now, finding the best time that's going to be really based on you, right? I heard a social worker in a training say, you know what? I work in the er. There are people coming in that are in dire need. I don't think that's the right time. Probably not. Absolutely not, right? You don't want to be taking their vitals and then saying, Hey, are you registered to vote? But being able to assess the situation, we're fantastic at that. We know when to assess. We know when to challenge our clients because they're ready for it. We know when to terminate with our clients because they've done the work. It's the same thing here. Don't forget your social work skills. Find the appropriate time to ask them to do it, but it's legal to do it as long as you're nonpartisan, as long as you're not coercing somebody in one way or another. And as long as you're doing with the best intention, and that is to uphold democracy. That's the whole reason we're doing this.
Mel Wilson:
One of the things that I know Vote ER and NASW, that's part of the advocacy around vote.gov with the major agencies, federal agencies, which is a direct client initiative about voter registration, making sure it gets to those folks who have much more of a stake than we do into the outcome of an election. And again, it's nonpartisan, but it's really great that social workers will be having at least some conversation with their clients about the importance of that. So bravo to both of you. The next question segues into a little bit of not politics, but understanding where we are and with the environment that we are dealing with in the upcoming election. I started us off saying that this is perhaps the most important election since the Civil War, and some people say ever in your mind, so this is a sort of free form. You guys can just lay it out there in your minds, is what I just said, is that hyperbole or as social workers or folks who are involved with voting mobilization, do you agree that this is something that where everybody needs to really be committed to what's at stake as a nation? And I'll just, Vanessa, why don't you just start?
Vanessa Navarro:
Yeah, sure. So at Vote er, we look at every year as a voting or as an election year. Yes, there are issues that are very important on this one, but we don't really look at who people are voting for or who wins. But we're just making sure that all eligible people are registered to vote and turn out to vote. So we support every eligible citizen to vote in every election, and that's a big thing because our work does not end when this election ends. It has to continue, especially when it comes to local elections. So every election matters. We work to ensure that eligible people are registered to vote so that they can participate in every election, yes, presidential cycles, but also ballot initiatives, special elections, local elections, decisions that really impact communities. Health outcomes happen up and down the ballot in every election cycle. So while it's not necessarily hyperbole, I think considering all elections as important is very vital to the work that we do.
Mel Wilson:
Christina, any thoughts on that?
Christina Cazanave:
Yeah, what I want to add is I think your question is very poignant, and I'm going to speak as a social worker, not so much vote er. So I do want to make that distinction because I think what your question is, is it hyperbolic and well, it may sound hyperbolic. The claim that the 2024 election is one of the most important holds weight when we consider the significant political and social challenges that we're seeing in the United States just as the election leading up to the Civil War dealt with deep division over the direction of our country, most notably the issues of slavery and states' rights. Today's election is often framed as a battle over states' rights and democracy and civil rights, key issues like voting rights, the integrity of the democratic process, reproductive rights, climate change, economic is all at the forefront. And for many of us, particularly people of color, women, we're feeling that intensity.
We're living it, we're seeing it happen. And particularly in my state, we've seen it over and over again where civil rights are the forefront of these topics. So whether it's about maintaining some sort of democratic norm or addressing these social issues, to me, it's not a hyperbolic statement for a lot of us, for the clients that we're see on a day-to-day basis for the communities that we live in, we're seeing the impacts of voter suppression and legislators taking on these extreme positions. We're feeling that, and it makes our work as social workers harder when we are trying to make our clients better and feel empowered when we're up against such opposition. So I think there is a historical significance tied to this election, but what I want to say is we have to remember the power that we have.
The everyday social workers, what can they do to really get directly involved? And I'll throw something else out there. I'm not sure the social workers always know how to do that at the local level. A lot of things are always local, and this is something that again, doesn't have a right or wrong answer. Just your insight would be really great for this, for social workers who really want to do something.
Vanessa Navarro:
Yeah, Christina is going to have great insight on the legislative part and doing that sort of advocacy. But I'm going to kind of echo something that she said earlier, and that is simply asking the question is something that social workers can do. Don't be afraid to ask those question or ask the question, are you eligible to vote? And again, as long as you remain nonpartisan, it is legal to do so. So I did want to echo that because as we go into voter education week, I know this is going to be released in that week and there's going to have to be a little bit of lower lifts because of just the timeframe. So easily just asking the question is super important and something that they can do. And then there's also, I obviously have to speak from the vote ER aspect of it. There's also a lot of educating that they can do through some of the programs that we have.
We have Vote ER basics, which is basically a foundational training on how to use our vo ER tools, which include the badges and the custom pieces. And also it goes over the conversation starters. So you actually live role play the conversation starters and you can workshop how you're going to approach patients, clients, even colleagues. And I think that's one thing that we don't talk about enough is having conversations with your colleagues about these things. So that's also something social workers can do because a lot of colleagues, I think Christina and I've talked about this in the past in some conferences that we do, they feel like it's not their place and they don't understand that they are a trusted messenger for our clients, and it's really important to have these open dialogues with our colleagues, and that's something that can be done as well. Just opening up that conversation and seeing where that goes and seeing what you guys can do and come up with is always great. But as far as legislation, I'll pass that to you, local level stuff. I'm going to pass that to Christina.
Mel Wilson:
Okay,
Christina Cazanave:
Rolling.
Mel Wilson:
Christina,
Christina Cazanave:
I'm an educator, so I'm going to take us all back to social work 101. When we talk about those three different levels of practice, micro level, level and meso level, and I use that as a way to talk to social workers that want to get more involved. We got to start with the micro level, which is you. What do you know about local politics, your local leaders, your local elections, what do you know? So being able to look at what is happening in my community election wise. How many of you, your listeners know if they have a municipality election coming up, how many know who their city councilman is or their judge is, or who's running for sheriff? Being able to be an informed voter, it's not enough just to go and vote in the major elections. We need to be informed voters. We don't want to have a high amount of under votes, meaning people coming to the ballots and they're voting for the top half of the ballot and not the bottom half because they don't know.
So it starts with you. What is your knowledge, and then where do you get this information from? That's the number one question I get from members in Florida in NASW is how do I look up this info? Well, as much as sometimes we can't trust social media, your politicians, your local politicians, they're on social media because it's free. They don't have to pay all this money to get fancy websites and things like that. They're posting about their positions. They have Facebook lives or Instagram lives or they're talking about it. So I always say direct them. Go there first and look them up and then see what information you can find there. A lot of local newspapers in your area do a wonderful deep dive on these candidates. Some of them will send them questionnaires to all the candidates that are running for a certain position, and then you can see all their answers.
And there's a lot of, right now, a lot of town halls, your local legal women voters may be having a town hall where they're bringing all the candidates in that are talking, so you get to hear who they are. So it starts with you being informed if you are informed. Then the next part that I say is that Mele level, ask your clients, Hey, do you know who's running? Do you know where you get this information from? Do you know what's on your ballot? We have amendments coming up in this next election and a lot of our states, and that writing can be very confusing. So being able to talk to our clients about those amendments. And then for my macro folks, the ones that are like, I got it. I already talked to my clients, I'm so informed. Then your next thing is to use your voice.
Your state has, at least in my state, we have something called delegation meetings in which those state representatives and senators from my district come together or my county come together and they have a meeting, a couple of meetings when they're not in session, and they are open to the community where I can go and introduce myself and say, I'm an NASW member, and I want to talk to you about the concerns that social workers in my state are feeling or even writing an op-ed in your paper, submitting something in on a topic that's really important to your community that you want to bring attention to. There's so much that we can do as social workers. I think we underestimate our power or influence and our knowledge, but find that level that's right for you. If you need to start at the micro, let's start there. If your macro level, then I can't wait to hear your voice.
Mel Wilson:
Okay. Lemme add a couple of things that really quickly.
Vanessa Navarro:
Can I add something? I'm sorry. Did you mention the League of Women Voters? Did I hear that?
Mel Wilson:
I think you did refer to them, yeah.
Vanessa Navarro:
Yeah, so I just wanted to plug the League of Women Voters and also vote writers who are in partnership with Vote er. They're completely nonpartisan and they provide, like Christina said, information on when elections are information about who's getting elected. So those are fantastic resources for social workers to use and to provide to their clients as well when it comes to getting that deeper knowledge and confidence in voting.
Mel Wilson:
Right. The piece I was going to add too is that there's a shortage of voter poll workers, and one of the things that we should put out there that and can't say any of our social workers can to be at the local level and specifically to be poll workers, this is a very, very touchy area because there's the intimidation of poll workers is an effort to influence them negatively, but there is a real critical area and we often get at the national office requests for poll workers. And lastly, the whole issue, go ahead. I'm sorry. Go ahead.
Christina Cazanave:
Yeah, I was going to say I've been a poll worker as well in the 2022 election. I was able to do that and let me reassure your listeners who may be a little bit nervous about that. Yes, it's a real concern, but your supervisory of election is going to train you to the T. I have never seen anybody train so well compared to them. Anytime there was a concern during the actual process of the role that I was in, there was somebody to step in and help. I ran into no issues with it, but there were people on the ground ready to assist, and it just was a feeling of empowerment. And if you are a listener that's questioning, if this is truly a democratic process, what a great way to see it upfront in person.
Christina Cazanave:
That's exactly right to
do that too. So yeah, absolutely. We need more poll workers. Be nice to them when you see 'em. They've been there all day. Right. But it's a great opportunity for social workers.
Mel Wilson:
Yeah, that's true. Okay, last question ladies. What can NASW do to really insert itself, not just in this election that we were saying, but in the long run now we talk a lot and we do a lot of writing over here about voter suppression and gerrymandering, some of those macro council of discussions, but we should have a role as a national office and do you have any ideas perhaps we can be more helpful.
Christina Cazanave:
Yeah, I'm going to take that one first if you don't mind, Vanessa. I think the biggest rule that we need to take as social workers is to really come together and understand that it is the role of all social workers. I go back to those levels, micro mezo and macro. And for the longest time social workers that have been in the game for a while, like me, we were taught that this was a macro social workers role. They're going to handle this. They're going to do the policy and the research and the advocacy and the voting. But what we have seen over the last six years that it is not enough to just rely on the macro social worker. It's not enough just to rely one organization to do it. We all have a role in this because we all want to make sure not just our clients and our communities are doing well, but we're doing well.
We can't help others if our needs and our cup isn't being filled. So I need every meso social worker, every micro social worker to come and join me, join you, Mel, join you, Vanessa along with us, but we also need to be cognizant that we have to do better in our training. So a call to that I have to the national office and to my chapter offices and to every unit chair that's an NASW member have a workshop on and brain go Dr. In on how to ask people to register to vote, do a workshop in the next what we have 44 days to the election, what's on your ballot so everybody knows what's on your ballot, and then offer CEEs if you can, so that we can have more micro social workers involved because micro social workers weren't trained to do this. There's such a gap in our knowledge that we need to start building that knowledge. And then the last thing that I would say is to address the discouragement that some social workers may have that my vote is not going to make a difference because I'm in a swing state or my vote's not going to make a difference because I'm in a very blue state or red state. So what's the point? The thing is, what we're talking about is voting for the upcoming election, but what we're really talking about is upholding the democratic process. And that's a 365 day job.
Christina Cazanave:
It ends on November 5th and it begins on November 6th, and we need to be able to be involved for 365 days. And the small wins that we get is momentum. When our client shows up on time for the first time in weeks, that's a win. We celebrate that
When we get the social work licensing compact passed. That's a win when we get our candidate into the school board after a 14 year incumbent. That's a win. But it takes a lot of work and it takes 365 day commitment. So we need to constantly talking about how do we organize, we need to constantly talk about the policies that are impacting at the local, state and national level, and we have to have training year round talking about these issues so that social workers feel more comfortable and feel more excited to mobilize when it comes to election times.
Mel Wilson:
Vanessa, you want to add anything to that?
Vanessa Navarro:
Oh, yeah. So I think it was a perfect segue to what I was thinking. So a chapter at NASW can make a commitment to partnering in nonpartisan voter engagement work with Americans, and you can sign up to be a partner at Vote er. Should I say the whole link? It's kind of longish, or
Mel Wilson:
Actually you have an opportunity because we're taping this too. Yeah, I had that as an attachment, if you want to include that.
Vanessa Navarro:
Okay, perfect. Yeah, so we have a link, it's Vote ER vot-er.org partner with us. Vote ER has worked with over 400 institutions across the country. I personally have done trainings on voter engagement and the connection between voter engagement and social work for the NASW for certain chapters. Just recently did Wisconsin and Michigan, and I'm going to be speaking to Louisiana coming up. So if certain chapters want to have Vote ER come out and do not come out, but do a Zoom presentation or anything like that, they can email speaking engagements@voter.org. In addition to that, just sharing the resources we have, have digital materials, definitely ordering a badge obviously is super important. It's such an easy way to get that conversation started. And we have digital materials online, which can be found in our shop, but in addition to those resources, we collaborate with a number of partners who share information about what's on the ballot. Vote 4 1 1 is run by the League of Women Voters and they help clarify what someone is able to do and also have information on voting laws and things like that. And then Vote Writers, as I said before, is a really tremendous resource to support voters on. Also that front clarifying what they can do and what they can't do. So those are great resources to have. So if NASW wants to look into those.
Yeah, so honestly, just really echoing what Christina said in providing those resources and trainings. I just recently graduated with my MSW and there is that divide between macro and micro. I think as a macro worker, I was inundated with policy and advocacy and all of those things, and then when I would talk to my friends who were in the micro or doing the clinical program, there was a lot of like, no, that's a macro thing. And thankfully, I think through the CSWE has to be, there has to be a policy component graduating from MSW, but I do feel like that's not enough. I feel like there needs to be more involvement between both the micro mezo and macro groups to really get the education on how important civic engagement is as a social worker when it comes specifically to our code of ethics and how we work with those ethics in navigating our practices and stuff. So yeah, I think it's incredibly important.
Mel Wilson:
That's great. I'll share too that we at the national office are really beefing up our webpage and we have a very dedicated webpage dealing with issues around voting rights and voting process. So anything that you might want to post through the national office and through me, just feel free. I mean, this is we, that's kind of content is important.
Outro Speaker:
You have been listening to NASW Social Work Talks, a production of the National Association of Social Workers. We encourage you to visit NASW'S website for more information about our efforts to enhance the professional growth and development of our members, to create and maintain professional standards and to advance sound social policies. You can learn more at www.socialworkers.org. And don't forget to subscribe to NASW Social Work Talks wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks again for joining us. We look forward to seeing you next episode.