Transcript for Episode 58: Meet NASW President Mit Joyner
NASW Social Work Talks Podcast
Greg Wright:
Welcome to Social Work Talks. This is Greg Wright. Mit Joyner began her three year term as NASW's President on July 1st. Joyner has been a professor of social work at Westchester University for nine years, and she served as NASW's Vice President from 2015-2018. What is her vision for NASW in the next three years? We sat down to talk to her about that. Welcome to Social Work Talks podcast, Mit.
Mit Joyner
Hi, how are you doing, Greg?
Greg Wright:
You have been a social worker for a long time. What actually attracted you to social work, Mit?
Mit Joyner
I was listening and read John Lewis's statement in The New York Times. And he stated that his George Floyd moment was the moment that he saw Emmett Till's death. When I think at that time, John Lewis was 15 and Emmett Till was 14. And that resonated with me, because the moment I wanted to become a social worker, when I was definitely committed to social justice, is watching the assassination of Medgar Evers, Martin Luther King, Jr., of Malcolm X, of Robert Kennedy, of John F. Kennedy. It seemed like every time you turned on the television, there was an assassination.
And it was an assassination of a leader who was trying to do what was right for all people. And at that moment I decided, wow, that's something that I wanted to do. I wanted to make sure... That I just couldn't understand watching people being hosed down, and Bull Connor just doing horrific things to people, and watching people on television being beaten. I just couldn't imagine why do people do that? So I decided that I was going to become a change agent.
Greg Wright:
Are you aware that there were social workers playing a major role in the Civil Rights movement?
Mit Joyner
I didn't know they were social workers at the time. The day that I decided to become a social worker was when I was about 14-years-of-age. My mother made me work at a hospital as a candy striper, because she felt that I needed to know where I was going in life. I was working in emergency room one day and there was a social worker that came in. I didn't even know she was a social worker. There was a child that was hit by a car and he had died. And the mother was coming into the ER room, the person who hit the child, and I watched this person come in, and direct, and tell everybody, the mother to go into this room, the child is to go into this operating area, waiting area. And the person who hit the person has to go here.
And she just made such order out of mess. And I said to myself, "Who is that person?" And someone said to me who it was, and I ran home and I told my mother, I know what I want to be. I want to be a society worker. And she was like, "A society worker? What the heck is that, right?" And I said, "There was this woman by the name of," and I told her, her name, and my mother knew their family. And my mother said, "She is a social worker." And I said, "That's exactly what I want to do." And the moral of that story is I don't think Janet Robinson ever knew how she impacted my life. I never told her. I never had another conversation with her. But that's the moment when I decided I can do that. I can come in, and somebody can tell me a big problem, and I can figure out not how to solve the entire problem, but how to make it a little bit order, so we could actually problem solve it together.
Those were the elements. And why I think I really became a social worker is my dad. My dad had me call people up on the telephone. He was very active. He was in World War II. He came home, he became an electrical contractor, had his own business. He just did great things. But he was very involved politically. And so I would have to get on the phone with his list, and call people and ask them were they going to go vote. So it has been a part of my life. When I found out more about social work, as I said, it was later on in life when I went to Central State University, an HBCU. And that was my course of study.
Greg Wright:
Wow. You've have been active with our association for a long time, and you also served as our Vice President back between 2015-2018. Why are you so dedicated to NASW?
Mit Joyner
Well, actually I was involved in social work since I went to academia. I was the President of the Baccalaureate Association... BPD, Baccalaureate Program Directors. Ron Federico, who was a child welfare person, actually put my name on the ballot. And I told him I wouldn't win because I was new. And he said, "You're right, you won't win. But we're going to run you twice. And the second time you'll win." And that's exactly what happened. And I was a member at large, and then I moved into the role of president of that association. So I got to know everyone at the table. I got to know NASW, CSWE, all the different organizations. From BPD, I went over to the Council of Social Work Education and served as vice president. And from there, Alberta Gaudenzi kind of said, "You need to move into the president's role."
And I was like, I don't think so. And he said, "No, you need to do that. You need to put your name in the hat." So I was president of the Council on Social Work Education. Again, with the same partners around the table. Once I left academia, I decided to retire or begin my next chapter. And I started again and someone called and said, "Would you run for vice president of NASW?" And I was like, I don't think so. And they were like, "Wow, you know all the parties at the table. You know all the organizations, so why not try it?" And I wanted to end my career with how I began. And that's working in practice. Because I never, ever wanted to go to the Academy. The reason I went to the Academy is because God blessed me with twins. And I had to make a decision about how to raise children and still work.
And I wanted to do that. And the Academy was one place where I was able to achieve that goal. So I ran. I really learned about NASW. Had no idea how vast the enterprise was and what people did. But I was there under the tutelage of Darryl Wheeler, who was someone that I greatly admire. I consider Darryl to be a genius almost. And I learned from him. And then when the opportunity came, I decided to go ahead and throw my hat in the ring for president. I've always been involved. It goes back to grade school. I was homeroom rep. I was always involved in being able to hopefully bring voices to the table, to help everyone understand that everybody has a place at the table and how to come up with some of the best solutions.
Greg Wright:
You are entering at a momentous time, we are dealing with a coronavirus pandemic, there is a lot of racial unrest happening and our economy is in shambles. So it's like a three prong disaster going on. I think that you are looking at it also as an opportunity. I was wondering how are you going to help this association through all of these issues?
Mit Joyner
You're right. I had no idea that when I put my hat in the ring, I actually wanted to go back and resinate Gary Bailey's public education campaign about social work. And that was really what my goal was going to be once I took office in July. In March, actually everything turned on a dime. It actually started in February with the coronavirus. And then it went into a horrific watching on our TV, the death of an individual, Mr. George Floyd and Rayshard Brooks. And then we had also Breona Taylor, who we learned about was shot in her bed. And then we had Ahmaud Arbery, who was running. It changed everything. And it will change the world actually. And I am still sorting out how to bring all these together. Going back to spirituality, I love Native Americans philosophy.
I used to bring Charles Clark, whose father was Chief of the Nanticoke tribe, to my class often. And he often talked about sometimes mother earth has a different path for you to walk. And so I accept this path. And it is not going to be Mit Joyner who makes any kind of major changes. It's bringing all these voices together, hopefully, so we can make change together. The issue that I want all of us to look at is, is on the backs of Whitney Young, who everybody knows was one of the architects of the March on Washington with John Lewis, Martin Luther King, James Farmer, Alvin Poussaint and Roy Wilkins. They were the big six, right? And they're the ones that decided that we needed to have a March on Washington. So the very fact that he was president of NASW and I'm president of NASW, I'm very proud of that legacy, to be standing on his shoulders.
But I know as I stand on his shoulders, he would want us to be forward thinking. What are some of the issues that we're going to have to resolve? I'm looking at opening up the schools in the midst of a pandemic, and I'm watching a lot of the suburban schools where I live say, "We're going to go virtual. We're not going to bring their kids back to school." And yet I watch again, this human test that we sometimes do, of putting more vulnerable kids in places where they have to go back to school or their parents have no other choices. So we have to be forward thinking about that. We can't make our children our human guinea pigs. We can't do that. At the same time, we also need to think about when schools do open, what do we need to put in place so that kids can feel comfortable about coming back?
We should be thinking about that now. We should be leading that effort now. So then down the road, when the doors do open, should we make a statement and say that there has to be year round school? That there has to be social workers that work with kids about the trauma of being home and not going back to school? And that mistrust versus trust that so many people talk about. I know I have a grandson that's due to go to kindergarten. His whole life is going to be shaped out of, he had to do it online. And you always refer back to your kindergarten years, as we're watching college students go to be their first year as freshmen. That's where you make all of your friends forever. My best friend to this date is someone that I met my first year.
We really need to start thinking about, and getting the Department of Education to think about how can we make these schools work year round for a period of three to four years to get catch up? That's what we need to do as a society. How are we going to mobilize, because we are facing almost a depression. How are we going to let people work two or three jobs without having to worry about I've got to stop and find daycare for my kids in the summer, I've got to send them to summer camp and pay more money. As a society, we need to think about that now. And that's what I would like social work, and I think social work does that, but I'd like us to articulate it even more, is what is the vision that we have because of the COVID virus? Let's be forward thinking. How are we going to put things back so that they're never ever going to go back to the way it was, but how are we going to make things so that people are able to achieve and still be able to succeed?
And that's kind of what I see our role as social workers. I see Whitney Young did that when he thought about the March on Washington. What did he really, what did that big six, what was their vision? What was John Lewis' vision of the future that allowed him to go out there and be the youngest person, to give a speech at times where people weren't even accepting of African Americans. There was still separate, but equal, was still being practiced throughout this country in so many ways. And that's the role of social work. The role of social work is to help people where they are, and to help people problem solve their issues the way they want to problem solve, not what we dictate they do. But at the same time is to drive policy so that we change and make sure that people are able to succeed.
Greg Wright:
On the issue of policing reform. Now, it has divided the social work community. There are some social workers who are for a total defunding. Others are seeing a greater role for social workers in a police force. So is this an issue that the social work professionals should have a bit more conversation about?
Mit Joyner
It definitely is an issue that we all have to look at. There's no question that police reform is necessary. There are some calling for just to abolish police. But what I say to all parties, and social work has a tendency, sometimes we try and rescue people, and I'm not of that mindset. I'm of the mindset that the community knows what's best for them. And whatever the community tells me they want, then that is what we should do. Often when you go back and you look at our history, we have created, right now, child welfare, they're looking at that the same way. And so some of the people who started child welfare thought that they knew what was in the best interest of children. And they made programs, and policies and rules for the best interest of children. But they didn't check with families, what's the best interest for their children.
And perhaps we could have sidestepped some issues as it relates to gross physical neglect. When people didn't have enough money to be able to care for their children, we could have actually maybe supplemented, rather than to destroy their family. While I see that the same way with police reform. Until we go out, and I would ask social work to do what we always should do, is follow the facts. Let's commission a study where we go into the world, the urban, the suburban, every facet of our community to ask, how do the people want to be safeguarded? And what recommendations do they have? I sit here right outside of Philadelphia, and unfortunately this week we had a young fellow of seven-years-old, who was out on his porch playing. And he got hit by crossfire.
People were shooting guns up and down the street. And he was shot in the head. He lived for two days and he died yesterday. And the community is saying...
Greg Wright:
Wow. Unfortunate.
Mit Joyner
They're demanding, they called the police in and they're demanding, why can't our kids sit on our porch? You are not safe guarding us. And they talked about the need of community police or community safeguards. I don't know if the word police anymore, but someone coming in and making sure that their kids can do the same thing that kids in the suburbs can. The kids in the suburbs or going outside, playing, and having water fights, and all kinds of things and enjoying the summer months. Where kids in the city without any air condition are forced to stay inside because the drug wars are up during the pandemic. We need to be at the table and we need to ask communities, what do you need so that you can have a better quality of life?
And once we commission that, and once we get the data back on that, and it doesn't have to be a long, long study that takes two or three years. There's ways to do something rapidly, if that's the desire of the social work community. Then we can work off those recommendations. But I don't want to be a leader that 30 years from now, someone says, "They took the police from my neighborhood." Who did? The social workers did. Did you ask them to do so? No. I think we have to look at that. We cannot come from the Academy or any spot and make this just a research test, because it affects real people in their community. We have to go in and ask. So, that's where my position is. And then my secondary point on that is racism is what killed George Floyd. Racism. And there was a police officer who was racist, that knelt on his neck for eight minutes and 46 seconds.
Racism is what killed Emmett Till. There were a group of men who, because they thought he said, "Bye, Babe." Decided that he wasn't going to live another day at 14-years-of-age. And racism is what brought us over on the ship in 1619. I challenge the social work community to have a conversation, a much needed conversation on race. We skip over that. For whatever reason that is not a conversation that people like to have. Yet, as you've heard me say, and you see it in my writings, and I will continue to say that racism is the human stain of America. It is what got us to where we are. It is in our educational system. It is in our political system. It is in our police system, criminal justice system. It permeates through every system in America. And we need to address that. Larry Davis did the best conference I ever attended, and that was Race In America. And came out with some really good recommendations.
Mit Joyner
And he brought people from every discipline together to kind of talk about the issue of race. Larry Davis was the Dean at the University of Pittsburgh School of Social Work. He developed a conference and found a lot of funders to have Race in America, about four or five years ago. People are always saying, "That's old. We don't want to talk about race." But that's what gets us to where we are. It's time for social workers to recognize that we have a duty and an obligation in every major system that there is to address racism.
Greg Wright:
I think now though, we are seeing a momentum. Are you at all confident that this profession is really ready to tackle this issue at this time?
Mit Joyner
I hope that we bring in leaders that will stand on my shoulders that are just as committed as I am. And that's what it's going to take, because it's going to take a longer time. I'm a systems... At Howard University, systems theory was what I studied. And I believe in systems theory. I sometimes say, we'll always move forward with three steps. And then when things calm down, we tend to take two steps back. You get a little closer, but it takes a longer time. It was three steps forward, two steps back, three steps forward, two steps back. I'm not going to be a prognosticator as to whether we're going to take steps back, because it all depends on how well we in social work can come together and work on one common issue. There's so many issues that we're facing in society that we sometimes keep our eyes off that particular prize. So I'm hoping that we can, we'll see.
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Greg Wright:
I want to shift to our membership. There has been some criticism that this association is out of touch. That it's too elitist. On Instagram, we've heard that people are thinking that NASW is too female, that it's too white, even though a lot of our membership are in fact people of color. So I was wondering how you are planning to address issues like these, and also bring a lot more voices into the fold of this association?
Mit Joyner
Well, as you said, NASW is a membership organization. We work on program goals and it's what our members bring to the table. Those are the issues that we focus on. That is in our bylaws. And in our mission. I am a person of color. I am not a social worker who puts my race last. It's always first. And so bringing people to the table, if anybody ever wants to go back and explore the writings of Mit Joyner, or talk to people who've worked for Mit Joyner, they're always going to say that social justice is always first and foremost in everything that I've done. Every speech that I've made, I've always addressed that issue. I think what I learned about being at the table is something I learned again at Howard, you're not going to make changes if you don't come to the table.
And you don't say to people that some of these policies may keep me out and make those changes. So I invite people to come to the table of change. I firmly believe that we must have new voices at NASW. Membership is one of the criteria for coming inside. But at the same time, there's predicted to be about 800,000 social workers in the United States. And there is about 115, up some, down some, who belong to NASW. And we are the largest organization of social work membership. Something tells me, the way that I analyze that is that we need to do a little bit more work in our schools of social work for them to understand that in order to bring change, you need to use your voice. And to look at social work history. I would love to have 800,000 social workers members of NASW.
And I would love to have, but even if I couldn't get that, again, let's get back to being realistic. If I could get one-third of the people at the table. And then even that third saying, "This is where we want change to be." That's the change that we will seek, right? John Lewis, Representative John Lewis told me way back when, when I was president of CSWE, that you can't... It is important to show up. If you want to make change, it's important to show up. It's important to speak up, stand up, and it's important to speak up. And I believe that. So I urge people who are... Because the thing with NASW is that, and something that I see, is that internally, I mean, the staff, they do great work. I would not belong to, believe me, I would not belong to an organization that I feel does not do great work.
In our society, yes. And in social work, the majority of people are women. And the majority of the racial group is white. Yes, that is true. How do we attract more people of color into social work? Because if you go back in the '70s, a lot of people of color started going, after the Civil Rights movement, into social work. And so how do we recruit more and more people into social work? I was listening this morning before the podcast, Black men in social work. How do we recruit where man into social work, Black man into social work, Latino men into social work, Latino women into social work.
It is important for us to kind of spread our net wide, because that's where people are more effective. So I think we have a job at NASW is to, and what I'm trying to do, is to go out there and throw a large net in, but to also make sure those individuals are on the various committees that we have. And that their voice is being heard, because oftentimes we can bring people in, but they're not on any of the committees. So they don't even really understand the structure. That's where I plan on looking and making sure that everything is as inclusive as possible.
Greg Wright:
Well, I was wondering if there are other issues that you are also looking to tackle. I think that voting is also one of those, but are there any others, Mit?
Mit Joyner
Well, voting is the most important to me. I vowed a could of months ago, as I was watching George Floyd, and I was watching all of the things that popped up, is that November is one of the most critical days for social work, for vulnerable people in our society, for people of color. I'm not putting my faith on one person, but I do know that under this current administration, the setbacks that have occurred. I do know that there's a pile of legislation that NASW has supported, that's sitting and waiting for the Senate to listen to. It doesn't even get to the floor. So if we want to bring about change out of any injustice, we really have to get out there and work. And then we have to protect the right to vote.
I just told you about my dad, who served in a colored only troop in World War II. Came back and established his own company. Based on that, I do that for my dad. My dad told us we should never ever miss a vote. And it is our job and obligation to bring other people to the ballot. And so it is our job and responsibility as social workers too. So I call on social work to look at that. After that election, I call on us to get up to the Hill and put our demands into, hopefully if there's a change of administration, of things that we want. And to be able to say to every Senator, and every representative, and to the President himself, this is how many people we represent. And these are the changes that we need to see occur. Now, I do predict that our world is in a mess. And it's going to take a long time to get back to some sense of order.
I do know that the next administration is going to have every professional association trying to do the same thing that we're trying to do. It's important that we understand how to prioritize that as well, and how to be tactical, and how to be strategic about what we ask for. How to work with our other partners in other professions to say, "What's your ask?" Is their ask similar to ours? If it is, then perhaps we should back their ask, so that we have an ask, and keep our second, maybe number one. It's a very strategic time for social work, if we're able to change some things in November.
Greg Wright:
Thank you. Well, I want folks to also know a bit more about you, because we've actually covered a lot of very deep, deep questions. So I'm just going to ask you a few things, fun things, hopefully. So you are a grandmother of how many?
Mit Joyner
Two. Two boys. And I had all girls. So this is fun.
Greg Wright:
Another question, you had already mentioned that a social worker, who was a hospital social worker, was an inspiration. But I'm wondering if you have on any other heroes?
Mit Joyner
Well, my biggest hero is my dad. He's the one who literally gave me the lessons of life. And also my mom. I watched the two of them from having nothing, to my father having his own business in the Tri-State area, being the one businesses that had electrical contractors from the union shop. I know people didn't want him to do that because he was African American. So he is my biggest hero.
Greg Wright:
And final question. What's your favorite food?
Mit Joyner
Anything with lemon. I do not like chocolate. But if you give me a lemon square, I'm happy.
Greg Wright:
I like that. I like that. I love them as well. So I thank you for being our guests on Social Work Talks, Mit. Thank you so much.
Mit Joyner
Thank you.
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You have been listening to NASW, Social Work Talks, a production of the National Association of Social Workers. We encourage you to visit NASW's website for more information about our efforts to enhance the professional growth and development of our members, to create and maintain professional standards and to advance sound social policies. You can learn more at www.socialworkers.org. And don't forget to subscribe to NASW Social Work Talks wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks again for joining us. We look forward to seeing you next episode.