Announcer:
This is NASW Social Work Talks. During Social Work Month, we are exploring issues around social work salaries. Our guest in this episode is Valerie Arendt, Executive Director of NASW's North Carolina chapter. Valerie leads efforts to advance the social work profession in North Carolina, and helps new social workers successfully transition into their careers. Valerie Arendt holds an MSW and a master's in public policy. Her social work experience has included refugee and immigrant families, early childhood education, affordable housing, and nonprofit management. She was career columnist for the New Social Worker magazine for three years. After listening to this episode, visit the show notes for resources. And please leave us a review on iTunes. Now, here's Greg Wright and Valerie Arendt.
Greg Wright:
Valerie Arendt, welcome to Social Work Talks podcast.
Valerie Arendt:
Thank you for having me, Greg.
Greg Wright:
Why are you an expert on salary levels and salary negotiations? What actually got you interested in that subject?
Valerie Arendt:
I have worked for NASW North Carolina for about eight years. I first started as the Director of Membership. And when I moved from Minnesota to North Carolina, I had to work hard to get a job. It was during 2010, and the job market was not that great. So, I actually started... When I was doing my job search, I had a career coach. The career coach really helped me, not only look at my resume, but I was able to look at a lot of other aspects to finding a job, including okay, when you get that job offer, that the salary negotiation time, and then also when you have your job, when do you start asking for a raise. Over the last eight years, I have worked with all of our NASW North Carolina members in the capacity of career consultation and resume reviews. I have reviewed hundreds and hundreds of our members' resumes, and I've also talked to them about salary negotiation. I've had to do salary negotiation for myself over the years, and as I have written in the past for the New Social Worker magazine, I wrote an article about salary negotiation, and did a lot of research about how that goes, and how women really need to incorporate that into their career trajectory.
Greg Wright:
People often joke about social work salaries being so low, but you said that this is not a joke. Why?
Valerie Arendt:
If you go on Instagram, there are a lot of accounts by nameless social workers that often post graphics that are meant to be humorous and poke fun of the difficulties of social work. But oftentimes, these jokes do more harm than good. One common meme that I see often is, "Social work: We're not in it for the income, we're in it for the outcome." If we continue to joke and say, "Yep, I'm a social worker and I don't make any money, ha, ha, ha," nothing will change. If we take our profession and our salaries seriously, then this is the only way that we can really make an effort to be paid what we're worth based on her education, our professional experience, and much of the time, clinical mental health expertise.
Greg Wright:
What are the reasons social work pay tends to be lower? You already mentioned that it's a female-dominated profession, but I'm wondering, are there other reasons?
Valerie Arendt:
Sure. I think, like nursing, childcare, and teaching, social work is a caring profession. And traditionally, those female-dominated careers are grossly undervalued. Unfortunately, I think low salaries for social workers is a reflection of our societal priorities. Vulnerable populations continue to be looked down upon or seen as having a moral failing for their predicament, instead of the result of social circumstances. It should be possible to serve vulnerable populations and those in poverty, and make a livable wage.
Greg Wright:
You've said that one reason why social workers don't get higher pay is that they simply don't ask. So, I was wondering if you could explain how to do salary negotiation?
Valerie Arendt:
When I give presentations on salary negotiation, I always start by telling a personal story of a job that I was offered after graduate school. I'd been an intern at this amazing organization, and I'd been a volunteer. I knew everyone who interviewed me. And when I was made the offer, I was so excited to work for this great organization, that I accepted with no questions asked. I didn't ask for any salary increase. I was just so excited to even get the offer. Six months later, I was asked by my supervisor to manage additional staff. And when I asked for more compensation, my boss said, "Good for you, Valerie. I expected you to negotiate like this when I hired you." And that just blew me away. It didn't even occur to me to ask for more money. Nobody really talked about it in my graduate school, nobody had taught me to do that type of salary negotiation. So, I was given a raise that I could have negotiated earlier. I had missed out on additional compensation. When I talk about salary negotiation to audiences, I talk about a book that's called Women Don't Ask, by Linda Babcock and Sara Laschever. They talk about how men negotiate four times more than women, and 20% of adult women never negotiate anything at all. A big part of that understanding about salary negotiation is that your initial rate of compensation will drive future raises, cost-of-living increases, and so forth. There is a "Fast Company" article that indicates that a 25-year-old who was offered a salary of $50,000 and negotiates it up to $55,000 will earn $634,000 more over 20 years. And that is incredibly significant, especially for the social work profession. Three-quarters of employers say they could raise starting salary offers by 5 to 10% during negotiations, and most employers do have room for that negotiation before finalizing the offer of employment. So, I do want to say that I recognize that some state and county departments have set salaries for entry-level positions, so it is hard for some people to be able to initially negotiate their salary. But 90% of hiring managers say that they have never retracted an offer because an entry-level candidate attempted to negotiate. And for those who did ask for a salary increase, 80% were at least partially successful. So again, what you said earlier, Greg, is if you don't ask, the answer will always be no. So, it is important for social workers to, when they are going in for that initial job offer, to always do their research and attempt to negotiate for a higher salary.
Greg Wright:
Is it also an issue that social workers have to prove to the employers what their actual value is?
Valerie Arendt:
Absolutely. Social workers have innumerable skills that are crucial to organizations and communities. Social workers are trained to look at situations in a holistic way, they help people increase their ability to solve problems, social workers bring individuals together with other people and their communities to find solutions, like lack of affordable housing, hunger. Social workers are amazing. We have a really hard time articulating that, both in public and in job interviews. Salary increases are for high performers and those committed to an organization. It's really important that social workers understand that they need to articulate that personal value. That's talking about what you've achieved. The hiring manager wants to hire you because you're the best person for the job, but in order to get that salary increase it's important to really sell yourself. So, when asking for a higher salary, social workers can articulate their value to employers by both doing their research and preparing. First, when you are working on that salary negotiation piece, it's important to highlight and quantify your accomplishments and hard work. You can do this by keeping a running list of all the projects that you're proud of, lessons that you've learned, and praise that you've received throughout your career. You also need to be able to articulate how you can contribute to the organization, or how have you actively advanced... can advance part of the strategic plan of the organization. And then talk about what you will be able to do for them for the future. And this is good advice, not only for salary negotiations, but when you're asking for a raise in an organization that you've already been a part of for a number of years. And then, it's important for you to do your market value research. Keep up on the latest salary trends for your position, title in organizations similar to yours. And just finding out if they're not low-balling you, and looking to pay you less than other comparable jobs in other organizations. So, it's really about the organization and what you can do to advance their mission. And if you're going to focus on yourself, make it about your strengths and what you can do to be a valuable employee.
Greg Wright:
Those are wonderful tips. Thank you, Valerie. On a larger level, though, you are the Executive Director of the NASW North Carolina chapter. What is the chapter doing on a higher level, on this salary issue? Are there any bills out there, regulations, that you are working on at this point?
Valerie Arendt:
North Carolina is currently going through Medicaid transformation to managed care. This is been going on for a number of years. Back in 2015, our legislature voted for Medicaid to be transformed into managed care. So, NASW North Carolina has been at the table on a number of coalitions and advisory groups to make sure that the social worker voice is heard and valued, during this transformation, helping the Department of Health and Human Services understand that social workers are a key team member in integrated care settings, and working with these managed care organizations to understand the importance of hiring social workers, and making sure that these social workers are leaders on these multi-disciplinary teams. There is currently, a bill that has been introduced that focuses mostly on teachers. Currently, in the State of North Carolina, all teachers are paid at the bachelor's level, regardless if they have a Master's degree. A bill has been introduced to change that to pay the master's level teachers at the master's level salary. And that change would also include master's level social workers. So, currently school social workers in North Carolina are all paid, regardless of their degree, at the bachelor level. This would be a big change that NASW North Carolina is advocating for. I am fairly new in my role. I've been Executive Director for the last year. But something I do intend to continue to work on is, North Carolina is one of the few states left that does not have title protection. And I do think that has a big factor in social work salaries. What that means is, social workers in the private sector, in order to be called a social worker, have to have a degree in social work, either bachelor's, master's, or doctoral. But in the public sector, that is not the case. So, social workers can be hired in public entities and not have to have a degree in social work. And that's something that I intend to work on during the rest of my tenure with NASW North Carolina.
Greg Wright:
Wow, that's a lot on your plate, there, but we wish you luck, and we also thank you for being our guest. Thank you, Valerie.
Valerie Arendt:
Thanks so much, Greg. I appreciate it.
Announcer:
You have been listening to NASW Social Work Talks, a production of the National Association of Social Workers. We encourage you to visit NASW's website for more information about our efforts to enhance the professional growth and development of our members, to create and maintain professional standards, and to advance sound social policies. You can learn more at www.socialworkers.org. And don't forget to subscribe to NASW Social Work Talks wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks again for joining us. We look forward to seeing you next episode.